Isaiah 9:6, Question about Isaiah 9:6

On behalf of Sherlene

Quote from: AndrewG on January 04, 2009, 04:10:12 PM

On behalf of Delmusp

I have a problem with understanding Isaiah 9:6.

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

The everlasting father here. Is not God the Father? I was just wondering about this verse.

Can someone help me? unsure.gif

Delmus

Hi Delmus,
I can share my opinion with you and hope it helps.

Isaiah 9: 6
"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, the mighty God, the everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace."

This text is said to support the doctrine of the trinity, however, this text is not declaring that Jesus is God the Father, or that Jesus is the trinity because one another title in the verse, clearly refers alone to Christ - "the Prince of Peace."

The Bible prophecies confirm that Jesus is undesputably the Messiah, therefore Isaiah 9:6 refers to Christ's titles.

Isaiah lists the characteristics of the divine/human Messiah. Some of the attributes and characteristics refer to the Messiah as the divine Son of God and yet also as the human Son of Man.

Isaiah reveals the names or characteristics that are given to the Messiah. (In Jewish thought, a name conveys a character). For example, God declares in Exodus 23:21 regarding the Messiah, “My name is in Him.”

The character of the Messiah would be wonderful. He would be humanity's councellor (their advocate and comforter); the mighty God (a divine being, the Son of God). He would also become the new representative of humanity and as such would become the everlasting Father to the human race.

Paul introduces the Messiah in the great gospel chapter of Romans 5 – as the New Representative of the human race. Romans 5:12-19 outlines the reality that Christ, at His incarnation took the place of the first Adam. In His position as the second Adam, He legally became the New Head of the human race. Just as the first man Adam was the father of the human race, so the Messiah, the second Adam took humanity into Himself and became the New Father of the human race. He did not of course, become a Father to His own Father, but to those whom He represented on earth – the human family.

The government shall be upon His shoulder :
When will the government be upon the shoulder of Christ?

1 Corinthians 15:24
“Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.”

After Christ’s High Priest ministry is completed (when sin and death are no more in existence), then Christ enters His ministry as King. At the beginning of His kingly ministry - at this stage of His ministry, He shall be given the responsibility of government by the Father.

In Isaiah 9:6, the author links government with fathership. Isaiah again uses similar language and links both government and fathership in Isaiah 22:20-21

Eliakim was given authority to govern Judah. God states that Eliakim, as the ruler, becomes a spiritual father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.

Isaiah 22:20-21
"And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will call my servant Eliakim the son of Hilkiah: And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah."

After the destruction of evil, Christ becomes the new Governor or Ruler and is installed with the NAME (i.e. becomes characterised) as the “everlasting father” to His subjects.

Could it be that the Roman Catholic Church has imitated this concept of joining government or authority, by calling their leaders/priests “father?”

The Everlasting Father – the Counsel of Peace
The language of Isaiah 9:6 in relation to the expression “the everlasting father,” was found, according to Adam Clark’s Commentary on the Bible, that the Septuagint actually reads “the Messenger of the Great Counsel” instead of “the Everlasting Father.”
“The Septuagint have megalçs boulçs angelos, "the Messenger of the Great Counsel."

This rendering corresponds to the statement in Zechariah where the counsel of peace is shown to have been between only two Divine Beings.

Zechariah 6:13
“Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both” (not between the trio).

Was Christ actually called, “the everlasting Father” or was the actual text acknowledging His pre-existence and involvement in the Great Counsel of Peace of which Zechariah spoke?

If it is accepted that the expression “the everlasting Father” is the correct interpretation, then it is interesting to note the different usage of the word “everlasting” in the Bible.

Hebrew for “Everlasting”
At least two Hebrew words are translated in the King James Version as “everlasting.” These words have been mistakenly understood ONLY to mean “without beginning and without ending” in our Westernised thinking, but the Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew Lexicon reveals that the Hebrew language has much wider meanings and can mean 'long lasting, continuous existence; forever from a certain point into the future.' Habakkuk . Habukuk 3:6 uses both Hebrew words for “everlasting.”

Habakkuk 3:6
6He stood <05975> (8804), and measured <04128> (8787) the earth <0776>: he beheld <07200> (8804), and drove asunder <05425> (8686) the nations <01471>; and the everlasting <05703> mountains <02042> were scattered <06327> (8691), the perpetual <05769> hills <01389> did bow <07817> (8804): his ways <01979> are everlasting <05769>

1. The word “ed” #5703 – everlasting is applied to mountains.
2. The word “eulm” #5769 – everlasting -eulm ` owlam or elm ` olam

Brown-Driver-Briggs’ Hebrew Lexicon
“everlasting” –
#5703 ed ` ad ad from <05710>; ; n m AV-ever 41, everlasting 2, end 1, eternity 1, ever + <05769> 1, evermore 1, old 1, perpetually 1; 49

1) perpetuity, for ever, continuing future
1a) ancient (of past time)
1b) for ever (of future time)
1b1) of continuous existence
1c) for ever (of God's existence)

#5769 – everlasting -eulm ` owlam or elm ` olam from <05956>; ; n m
AV-ever 272, everlasting 63, old 22, perpetual 22, evermore 15, never 13, time 6, ancient 5, world 4, always 3, alway 2, long 2, more 2, never + <0408> 2, misc 6; 439

1) long duration, antiquity, futurity, for ever, ever, everlasting, evermore, perpetual, old, ancient, world
1a) ancient time, long time (of past)
1b) (of future)
1b1) for ever, always
1b2) continuous existence, perpetual
1b3) everlasting, indefinite or unending future, eternity

Christ is the Father of His Children

Isaiah also refers to our Redeemer – Christ, and His children.

Isaiah 63:16
“For you are our Father, though Abraham does not know us, and Israel does not acknowledge us; you, O LORD, are our Father, our Redeemer from of old is your name.”

Isaiah 8: 18
“Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion.”

Paul also quotes Isaiah 8:18 when in reference to Christ, he says in:
Hebrews 2:11 –13
“For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren…. I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.”

Isaiah describes the Son as a father to the inhabitants of the earth. The Father gave His Son authority to govern. The Son is a father to us - Christ calls us his children.

The Legal Concept
Adam had stood as father at the head of the human race and he had to accept the responsibility for placing the whole human race in rebellion against God.

Romans 5:19
“For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.”

Christ, as the second Adam, became, by his incarnation, the new Father of the human race and has assumed the responsibility for the salvation of humanity.

Christ Claims Fathership of Israel

Exodus 4:22
And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me: and if thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, even thy firstborn.

Hosea 11:1
“When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.”

1 Chronicles 28:6
“And he said unto me, Solomon thy son, he shall build my house and my courts: for I have chosen him to be my son, and I will be his father.”

Ellen White states in the Kress Collection p 126, 4 July (1900)
“All communication from heaven to earth since Adam’s fall has come through Christ.”

The Son of God spoke to Moses and claimed the Israelites as His son. This proclamation of the Son of God, by His own statement, placed Him in the position of being a Father to Israel, His adopted children.

In The Persons of God, (1996) p 241, author Rachel Cory-Kuehl suggests, “’Christ is our ‘Everlasting Father’ (Isa. 9:6) but God is His Father (Prov 8:22-30, 2 John 1:3). He is our ‘Mighty God,’ but THE Father is ‘His God’ (Eph. 1:17, Rev. 3:12, Rev 1:6). We might say that Christ is our Father and God is our Grand Father.” (end of reference: Cory-Kuehl)

Christ was the only begotten Son of God by inheritance, however repentant members of the human race are the “adopted” sons and daughters of God.

Romans 8:15
“For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. “

Galatians 4:5
“To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.”

Ephesians 1:5
“Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will. “

So Christ is our everlasting father, the messenger from the counsel of peace, the Mighty Divine Being who is equal to God His Father in all of the divine attributes. The Son of God accepts the protective position of a father to His human family.

From the other writings of Isaiah and also the other Bible texts just studied, it can be seen that Isaiah 9:6 does not teach that Christ is a member of a trinity or a twin-ity, but that Christ was, in His pre-incarnate form, a Divine Being, the true Son of the Living God - a father to those whom He has redeemed.

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