IS GOD BOTH GOOD AND BAD

[AndrewG]

If God is Good / Bad than how does it work in heaven were every thing is good and not corrupted and what does Satan do, Does he just sit on the side line and watch or is he the one responsible for a great deception of the character of our God and our lord and saviour Jesus Christ, does he cloud our minds with the word wrath and makes it sound like a human response like for instance. (My wrath will put him in hospital or even kill), but the word wrath is an expression of righteous anger and is a response to how God looks at sin God loves the sinner but hates sin.

[AndrewG]

On behalf of Sherlene

God cannot be both good and bad in character, for 'in Him is no darkness at all.' There is 'no shadow of turning' in Him. He is the same today, yesterday and tomorrow; He does not change. James 1:17; Malachi 3:6: Hebrews 13:8

What are the fruit of the spirit of God - the produce of His character?

Love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance (Gal 5:22, 23).

What does Paul say are the fruit of the spirit of Satan? Gal.5.19-21 “Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, (20) Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, (21) Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”

If God had some evil traits, shouldn't there be a section inserted in Paul's statement that reassures us God has some bad points and that SOME evil doers will be in heaven? Perhaps Paul is required to say, “Those who do these evil works can, under certain circumstances, enter heaven, but on the condition that they they only sin and break God's law when it is 'necessary” - for example, the ancient Israelites who murdered men, women, children and infants; kidnapped women; raped them; and pillaged 'under God's express command'?

Does the spirit of Jesus does change? Hebrews 13:8 “Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.”

Can any evil gift come from God? James 1:17 “Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.”

Can God, the Author of Goodness bring forth the works of the flesh?
Matthew 7:18 “A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.”
Luke 6:43 “For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.”
James 3:12 “Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.”
Does God only think good thoughts toward humanity?
Jeremiah 29:11 “For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.”

Is God is of one loving mind and spirit or does He have a 'bad, evil' side to His character?

Did Jesus only demonstrate the 'good, nice, kind, merciful' side of God's character? If so, He didn't really give humanity a true representation of His Father and He lied when He told Philip that He had shown him and us, the Father (John 14:8-10).

Does God participate in evil? If the violent aspects which are attributed to God in the Old Testament were valid and accurate descriptions of His character, then those same traits would have to have been demonstrated in Christ's life, because He came to show us the Father. Violent traits simply are not evidence in the life of Jesus Christ for according to the Messianic prophecy “there was no violence in Him” (Isaiah 53:9).


Were the perceptions of the prophets always correct? eg In the book of Jeremiah
It is written many times" Thus saith Lord I will bring evil upon you." Does God bring evil upon us? Or is it just human to blame God when things go wrong? (as did Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden). Isn't our reality exactly perceived, the way we believe it?


The doctrine of the character of God (also called righteousness by faith in God's character). God's character is based on the principle of unselfish love - to every creature and in every situation. This is the 10 commandment law upon which His government is based. The Son of God demonstrated in His humanity, that no matter how evil or hopeless or violent a situation becomes, unselfish Love is the only righteous, holy and successful solution.

Satan of course, originally challenged (and still challenges) that loving principle and insisted that there are times when God's law is not sufficient to manage the situation eg. that God's law can be - must be- put aside (broken); sin must be excused and an 'indulgence' granted in certain wicked situations. Satan claims that the principle of unselfish love is not sufficient to meet the horrific evils of sinful human nature. Of course, Jesus' life proved that the principle of unselfish love is more than sufficient to meet any sinful crisis - and the ONLY solution to the crisis.

The keeping of the 7th day Sabbath shows our repect for God's charcter. His character is demonstrated to be unselfishly loving. This principle of unselfish love is demonstrated in God's holy law. When we permit Christ to produce in our lives, the fruits of His loving spirit, we keep the 10 commandments though His power. In other words, Christ produces in His people, perfectly unselfishly loving characters. These loving, (law-abiding) characters demonstrate allegiance to Him as the Creator; to His government and His principles (of unselfish love ie. putting others first and doing unto others as we would have them do to us).

Righteousnes by faith in God's character permits God to form a Christ-like character in us by placing His mind/spirit/principles in us.

That's the difference between the character of Christ and Satan. Christ's character is unselfishly loving in situations; law-keeping in all situations. Satan's character is selfish and law-breaking. There is no time where Love does not work and where Christ must use Satan's weapons. Pure Unselifh Love is the answer to all of the universe's sinful problems.

Sherlene

[AndrewG]

Very well written sherlene its great to see how dedicated you are to this important subject and to how much information you have from the bible to back every thing you say up

[AndrewG]

On behalf of Breaker

If God is Good / Bad than how does it work in heaven were every thing is good and not corrupted and what does Satan do, Does he just sit on the side line and watch or is he the one responsible for a great deception of the character of our God and our lord and saviour Jesus Christ, does he cloud our minds with the word wrath and makes it sound like a human response like for instance. (My wrath will put him in hospital or even kill), but the word wrath is an expression of righteous anger and is a response to how God looks at sin God loves the sinner but hates sin.

The belief that God torments people in a place called hell has been a stumbling block for many people who would otherwise believe in God, this erroneous and nefarious teaching has for hundreds of years shut out many from the truth, and so has the teaching of an unstable being who one minute loves and the next minute wants to destroy,who is angry and cruel, then remorseful, (and personaly, would I follow some one like this...never ever) praise the Lord that at last the truth is out, there is no place as hell, (see ten reasons to reject eternal torment at www.breaker1.ws ( page 4) and that God is love thankyou Sister for all the hard work that you have put into your books, for all the pain and suffering you have overcome to produce works of truth that this world needs today, my whole life has changed since this truth came to me via your work, and my gratitude and debt to you is inexpressible, so I'm left with thankyou. And may the Father of lights shine on you always, I remain, your brother.

[AndrewG]

On behalf of Sherlene

On behalf of Breaker

If God is Good / Bad than how does it work in heaven were every thing is good and not corrupted and what does Satan do, Does he just sit on the side line and watch or is he the one responsible for a great deception of the character of our God and our lord and saviour Jesus Christ, does he cloud our minds with the word wrath and makes it sound like a human response like for instance. (My wrath will put him in hospital or even kill), but the word wrath is an expression of righteous anger and is a response to how God looks at sin God loves the sinner but hates sin.

The belief that God torments people in a place called hell has been a stumbling block for many people who would otherwise believe in God, this erroneous and nefarious teaching has for hundreds of years shut out many from the truth, and so has the teaching of an unstable being who one minute loves and the next minute wants to destroy,who is angry and cruel, then remorseful, (and personaly, would I follow some one like this...never ever) praise the Lord that at last the truth is out, there is no place as hell, (see ten reasons to reject eternal torment at www.breaker1.ws ( page 4) and that God is love thankyou Sister for all the hard work that you have put into your books, for all the pain and suffering you have overcome to produce works of truth that this world needs today, my whole life has changed since this truth came to me via your work, and my gratitude and debt to you is inexpressible, so I'm left with thankyou. And may the Father of lights shine on you always, I remain, your brother.

Hi Breaker
What a very encouraging message you posted! Thank you for your kind words. We know that all praise belongs to God for His wonderful love, but it is glorifying to God when His children help and encourage each other. I'm grateful also for your supportive comments in this forum.

I've had a browse of your website www.breaker1.ws
You have, in my opinion, done a fabulous job on the subject of eternal torment (as well as other subjects).

I thought it would be good to put a copy of your summary/discussion here:

TEN REASONS TO REJECT ETERNAL TORMENT
Many ministers believe that when people die they pass into hell fire, there they suffer endless torture by a vengeful God. Here are ten reasons why Christians who study the Scriptures should reject such a doctrine.

(1) We reject the teaching of eternal torment because it claims that the lost will continue living forever, which is contrary to Scriptures plainest testimony: "He that hath the son hath life: and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life." 1 John. 5:12 "The soul that sinneth, it shall Die. Ezekiel. 18:20. " No murderer hath eternal life abiding in him." 1 john 3:15.
(2) We reject the teaching of eternal torment because it robs us of our God of love and substitutes a being whose wrath is never appeased. God "is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance" 2 Peter 3:9.
(3) We reject the teaching of eternal torment because it cannot be reconciled with the picture the Bible gives of Christ. Jesus said, "suffer (allow) little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the Kingdom of heaven. Matthew19: 14. Could this Jesus who gathered little children in his arms and blessed them while here on earth, take other little children and torture them throughout eternity?
(4) We reject the teaching of eternal torment because the redeemed, who will have a part in the final judgement, could never condemn their fellow creatures--their relatives, grandparents, parents, husbands, wives, and children--to unending torture. Their sense of justice could never permit such an atrocity. "Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? And if the world should be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters?" 1 Corinthians 6:2.

PUNISHMENT OUT OF ALL PROPORTION
(5) We reject the teaching of eternal torment because it imposes a punishment all out of proportion to the crimes committed. And thus violates the infinite justice of God. "But we are sure that the judgement of God is according to the truth against them which commit such things" Rms. 2:2. " I judge and my judgement is just" John 5:30, Christ tells us.
(6) We reject the teaching of eternal torment because it would forever cast a shadow over the happiness of the redeemed to know that somewhere in the universe their own relatives---their own flesh and blood---were being tortured, tormented, and toasted over undying flames. But," God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes" Rev 7:17.
(7) We reject the teaching of eternal torment because it demands that an eternal plague of sin taint Gods universe and makes it impossible for God to eradicate sin completely from his domain."Through death he (Christ) might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil" Heb 2:14. "And then shall the wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming" 2 Thes 2:8.
( We reject the teaching of eternal torment because it perpetuates and immortalises sin, suffering, sorrow, and pain. -- Thus it contradicts and nullifies God's promises that these things will no more exist: "And there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away " Rev. 21:4.
(9) We reject the teaching of eternal torment because it vilifies God's character and turns him into a monstrous agent of satan--- A miracle worker who keeps the wicked alive moment by moment in a fire that burns but cannot consume, that hurts but cannot destroy. God would have to miraculously sustain the lives of the lost in an aimless and endless punishment. Hence God would in reality become worse than satan himself. Instead, " Good and upright is the Lord " Psalm 25: 8; "Oh taste and see that the lord is good" Psalm 34:8.

THE BAD FRUIT, THAT LIES BRING
(10) We reject the teaching of eternal torment because of the fruit it has brought forth here on earth. It has caused untold millions, to turn their back on God and become his bitterest opponents. Moreover, it has caused thousands, even millions to do unspeakable things to their fellow humans in the name of God. Many who led out in the infamous inquisition of Europe and the witch-hunts of early America were religious men and women who believed they were carrying out the will of god. These devout persecutors tortured heretics in order to save their souls from eternal damnation in the flames of hell. In conclusion: God's vengeance, mentioned many times in Scripture, is the inexorable execution of divine justice. It stems not from his anger but from his absolute purity. Sin and sinners cannot survive in the presence of absolute Holiness, just as darkness is obliterated by light. "Our God is a consuming fire," declared the author of Hebrews, Heb 12:29. God demonstrated that fact in a small way at Mount Sinia, Ex 24:17. And will do so in a much greater way at the end of time, Psalm 50:3. God's vengeance, or wrath, will result in the complete destruction of the wicked, (their own sin will consume them - the all consuming fire will burst forth from within them) not their eternal torture. Many passages of Scripture attest to the complete annihilation of the wicked in the lake of fire:"By the blast of God they perish, and by the breath of his nostrils are they consumed." "Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth, and let the wicked be no more. " And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that fore sake the Lord "shall be consumed." Isa 1:28." But the wicked shall perish, they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away." Job 4:9; Ps 37:20, Ps 104:35; Isa 1:28.(emphasis supplied).
Whatever one comes to believe about hell, about the fires of hell, that belief must take into consideration the content of the above texts, as well as many others. If the wicked burn forever, how can Psalm 104:35 declare, "Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth, and let the wicked be no more." The Scriptures cannot contradict themselves. The solution must be in our interpretation or application of texts, which seem on the surface to present an opposing position.

Great summary Breaker.

Isaiah tells us that God's character - His thoughts - are far beyond any thoughts that sinful humanity can think. His ways appear to be foreign and unnatural to selfish beings, but all praise to Him for He has promised to change us, to take away our selfishness and to fill us with His loving spirit. His truth will set us free from the law of sin and death which 'naturally' results from our selfishness.

Thanks so much Breaker for sharing these very serious points and making them available for us to read and think about.
Sherlene smile.gif